Warriorcatclansrp Wiki talk:Charart

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Some of the Blanks
I was browsing through some of the blanks on the Charart page, and I noticed that some are somewhat incorrect in the anatomy area. Like the queen, I don't know if it is the angle or not, but the lower area of her body is out of proportion to the rest, along with some other anatomy issues. The rogue also shows some as well, the paws don't seem to line up very well, and the tail doesn't seem right either. There are some other blanks I could mention, but I'd like to keep this short for the time being.

I don't mean to sound rude, so sorry in advance to the blank artists. 08:45 Wed Jul 3

That's fine. I actually never liked the rogue blanks, anyway, but for the queen blanks... It's supposed to be that angle. Both pictures were based off real life images. Because people never commented on those stuff, I thought they were fine. 04:48, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Queen seems fine to me- it's one of my favorite blanks and it only looks off due to the angle. 04:50, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

However, I think the queen needs to be tweaked for a larger belly- she doesn't look any more pregnant than the warriors, if not even slimmer. The rogue has a bit of an anatomy issue, the paws are a bit too rounded and the face looks off in comparison to the build of the body, so maybe those should be redone or heavily revamped. Apologies for allowing this to simply sit here. Anyone else have something to say? I think we should try to fix these. 04:05, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, redo the rogues. I dislike it, anyway. 04:27, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

WHile we're on this subject, a conversation was sparked in chat- our shortfurred blanks should have a little floof, like the shorthaired StarClanners, and our current longhaired blanks can't pass for medium-furs, at that. With that, would anyone be opposed to three kinds of fur length? Long, medium, and short? We'd need to tweak all of the blanks, and it would be a big revamp, but probably worth it in the long run. Thoughts? 04:35, July 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * I totally agree with Leggy. It would be an extreme makeover, but I believe we could pull it off. It would also be easier for people who have really floofy or longhaired cats, so they wouldn't have to tweak lineart to make it appear more fluffy or ragged or asdf. (e. Toadstar)  14:27, July 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Like I said in chat about this, I agree with this idea. Making fluff on the short furred blanks like it is on the StarClan longhairs would work out, especially on the Dark Forest ones, because if their angry, they should have fluff on their backs and tails, they are Spinx's xD The medium length blanks are a little short to be considered medium, they would pass as short-hairs though, maybe. Making longhairs would work well with the fact that most blanks are tweaked to make them more fluffy, because about half of the longhairs on here are actually long-hairs like the long haired StarClanner. I mean, there is a difference between a Maine Coon or Birman like cat and a Russian blue or something. Personally, I think it's a good idea to make three lengths and tweak up the longhairs and make them a little more fluffier if they are going to be medium lengths. 15:45, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with what's said above. We should redo all that are anatomically incorrect so we don't have this problem in the future. 18:25, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

^^^^^^^^^^^^ @Stoem -- 19:07, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Well, now that I think about it... What's wrong about tweaking the lineart to make fluffier fur? (no flames plz) It might take a little bit, but I don't think we need to redo an entire blank just for fluffy fur... /shot -- 21:05, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

As I said in chat, I definitely think three blanks would be wonderful. There's a noticeable difference between short and medium fur, as well as between long and medium fur. While medium could /pass/ as either, it's called medium for a reason. It's in the middle and not truly either one. And considering how common they are, I think it's definitely needed. While it's not as major a difference as short to long, it's still very distinct. I know I wouldn't want to portray my mid-length fur cats as extra fluffy or very short furred once we fix the blanks, nor would I want to make my fluffy cats mid-lengthed, or be forced to tweak the lineart. While something like this wouldn't be practical somewhere like WWiki's pca due to the wiki being focused on a world that the users of the wiki did not create, here we have a major advantage. The creators of each of the charcters are here, and we can be more accurate with the images because of that. And I think we should definitely take advantage of that.

And yes, the longhaired blanks most definitely need to be made fluffier, and a little floof here and there on the shorthaired blanks would be good. The majority of the lineart tweaks made are to make the blanks fluffier. Really, that kind of thing should be very rarely needed. Only on cats who have like the amount of fur Grayface has, or something similar. All longhair cats have plumy tails, all longhair cats are fluffy, we shouldn't need to tweak for that. But we do currently because the blanks aren't portraying longhaired cats how they should.

Also, small note, depending on what age the kit blanks are meant to portray, they may not need any tweak. In fact, if they're portraying really really young kittens, we should only need one blanks for fur length. Kittens don't usually show whether they're long, mid, or short furred till they're a little bit older. Not sure the exact age. But otherwise, their fur is just kinda fairly short, soft, and fluffy.

Just in case anybody's doubting the amount of difference between short, mid, and long fur lengths, here's some examples.

Short:   

Mid:  

Long:  

I have no objections to the ideas stated above me; so will this go to a vote? Also will everyone get a chance to tweak a blank? 21:12 Fri Jul 26

Now that I have been thinking about it, and it sounds like a nifty idea, but I really don't want to change the blanks. Lineart tweaking ISN'T a sin. And I think it's a really dumb idea to just FORGET all the chararts we've spent countless hours of our freetime making, when some of them are REALLY hard to copy. A charart is like a thumbprint or a snowflake - no two are exactly the same.

Now, I am entitled to my opinion, so if some moron decides to flame me, go ahead. I'll just laugh at you. -- 21:57, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Moss, please re-read that last statement. FLAMING IS LIKE THIS AND I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE POST ONE WHOLE REPLY IN ALL CAPS POINTING OUT EVERY FLAW IN YOUR LIFESTYLE. Lineart tweaking is understandable for cats with large ruffs or particularly large tails. But if your cat's longhaired and our current longhaired blanks wouldn't even work for a medium-furred cat, that's absolutely ridiculous. If a pattern's difficult to copy, so what? You then just take a bit more time working on it., There's no sin to working on something five minutes at a time, stretched over the course of a week or so. If you don't want to copy something, that just implies laziness. We won't be forgetting chararts; we'll be improving them. It's not like the pose will be changed; just a few extra pixels that'll take ten minutes at the max to fill in with a pencil tool and adjusted for shading purposes to flow easier. These will be tweaks for most chararts; not complete overhauls unless you see fit.


 * Never go around calling someone a moron for disagreeing with you. That is horribly rude and if I was in a worse mood you probably could've been demoted for such a simple, absent-minded remark like that, as it is hurtful. That's all I'm going to say before I lose my top at the number of comments like that on this page. 02:37, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

ohgod I don't agree. me, Rowan, and Kelly discussed this in PMs, and had a few good points if i do say so myself.

1). If it's so important and needed, why was it ignored so long, and only brought up after we have all our blanks made?

2). It's gonna be a huge pain in the ass to have to redo all the chararts already made with the blanks we have. I mean, unless the people who made chararts for their long haired cats change the description.. not me~, they'll have a lot of chararts to do. I mean, my chararts are bad and I've been told this to my face before.. so it'd be a pain and a struggle to redo them all.. and even the great charart makers would have a lot of work to do..

3). We have a lot of blanks..

That's all don't shoot me, k? k. 03:14, July 29, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, you guys have every right not to agree. But don't be stung if I bring up my personal arguments against your disagreement.


 * 1) Because I've always been told that we weren't allowed to do this, and since I just became the PCA lead, I want to implement it. And we don't have all of them made- some of them need to be tweaked, anyway, to be more accurate in regards to their pose and builds. Why not hit two birds with one stone and take care of this now?


 * 2) It doesn't have to be a redo if it's only a fur tweak- you paste the new lineart over the original image, erase anything of the lineart on the original that contradicts with the new one, and use a pencil tool and color select from areas to fill in each pixel. Maybe a fifteen-minute tweak if you're being cautious.


 * Even if you're unwilling to tweak your images, I'm willing to do it for you. It's not difficult at all.


 * 3) ...your point being?


 * You won't be shot for voicing an opinion; you'll be shot for being rude. Seeing as that wasn't rude, you aren't being shot. 03:29, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

When will the vote go up? 18:43, July 29, 2013 (UTC)

Well, if there aren't any more arguments against this, then tomorrow. 01:24, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

erm. Is the vote gonna go up? P= 21:58, August 11, 2013 (UTC)

I guess so. 14:56, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

CBA and "Comment Prodding"
I am expecting to get shot down for bringing this up, but after going through not even half of the current chararts on the approval page and taking notes, I feel it is necessary to bring this problem to the attention of the fellow PCA members.

Lately, I have been noticing more individuals having to "prod" others for comments- whether it be in main chat or on the approval page itself. Now normally, patience would be a decent virtue to have in this situation, but the fact that other chararts are being approved/CBA'd that were made after the specified charart pretty much overrides that. While newer chararts are becoming a focus- and I am not saying that is a bad thing, necessarily- the older ones are having to collect dust without much attention. One of the chararts had to go almost two weeks without a comment, another having 10 days, and so on and so forth. Hell, Destiny's charart had to go nine days until it got a CBA! Not to mention, the chararts I am discussing are the ones from people who are actually on top of it! And while this is all happening, more chararts are being approved/CBA'd! I understand that leads only CBA art when they think it is ready, and I also know that individuals have a life. But honestly: If leads have time to sit in chat, and I do not mean to be offensive when I say this, and even comment on newer chararts, then they surely have time to focus on the chararts that have been waiting so long (and there still are quite a few that are) and at least comment/CBA them.

Can we please fix this..? -- 20:21, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

I couldn't agree with you more on this, Starry. I've noticed it a lot as well. PCA leads, it's your job to make sure that things are on point. There are 5 of you. I don't mean to sound stern, but you need to be on point. 20:38, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

I was actually planning to bring this up sometime soon, but you beat me to it, Starry. The older chararts need some more attention. At least three of the chararts that were posted within the last two weeks have been CBAd, and maybe one or two that've been up a month have been CBAd. Imagine this, that a family has an elderly person, two adults, and two children. Sure, the children need their share of attention, but so does the elderly person, don't they? I mean, without attention they'll probably 'be declined' because they've been 'up too long', whereas the children are being 'CBAd' as soon as they get put up so nobody has to deal with them later. And the same thing is happening on the approval page. Like you said, the older ones have been up for two, three, maybe four weeks without a single MENTION of the letters 'C,' 'B' or 'A', but the ones that were just put up are basically reciting the alphabet backwards as fast as possible. In fact, right now I'm gonna go CBA a few older ones right now. So to end this here, I think that I, Leggo, Beebs, Crys and Stoem should just try and CBA the older ones a little more often instead of posting a Stamp of Approval on chararts straight away, sort of like you said. 21:12, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with this as well. You guys can always nominate some new SWs for help as well. 21:16, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

-late- I have to agree on you with this. Every charart needs the same amount of attention as each other. You guys just took the words right out of my mouth. 06:36, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * I sincerely hope all of you are also aware that the older chararts have been having larger time gaps in uploads and most of the newer ones that get approved right away are done in charart standards. Most of the oldest ones are difficult chararts, too- shading's having trouble or whatever the problem is. Personally, I believe comment prodding is understandable, and I have seen no issue with it. Funny you should bring it up, Starry, for you have prodded me several times with your chararts. Now, before you try to get defensive, just stop. I've seen what I've seen, and our current system is running fine. I comment prod all of the time, whether or not my charart has gone long periods without being touched. Comment prodding is aggressive and will get your chararts often approved quicker because it brings attention to it. You've all seen how many chararts we have up for approval right now, and I don't see each and every upload on them. I don't have time to sit and pick at every single one. If you comment-prod, I will see yours, and it makes my job much easier.


 * Now, to further analyze your argument: even if you have time to sit in chat, you have power as a normal user. You have power to comment, after one week of inactivity, that you see nothing wrong. No one will jump all over your ass because you said that after a week of no comments. I had assumed many people were aware of this, but, whatever. More often then not I don't see people's artwork- my browser will occasionally hold some cats back from my view at times.


 * But what I don't understand here is the amount of PCA leads commenting on this, saying things like 'Oh yeah I see this a lot and I agree' or 'I agree with you on this' with no further input. The only lead who hasn't commented is me, and I'm not the only person at fault here. If you're going to comment, put forth a bit more effort- give me an explanation of why you agree and how you haven't done your job. If you see that it's only you and one other user who hasn't commented in regards to the whole leadership of PCA, then point that out. I'm not seeing many compelling arguments towards this matter and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed in some of you.


 * We do not need more SW's if we only have ten active users. We have enough, and if our current ones aren't doing their job to their full extent, as leader, I will talk to them about it and ask them to step it up or to step down so we can elect someone in their place. More is seldom the answer to anything- more's only needed if we're completely lacking.


 * I cannot bring myself to CBA something just because it's been sitting there. Often, someone will wait so long to reupload something that I don't even notice they have reuploaded at all. It's the user's fault as much as the lead's. And I, for one, will never CBA something if I know the user is simply being lazy or isn't meeting my expectations. I seldom CBA a thing nowadays because I've seen work everyone's done, and I have high standards for them based on their capabilities in the past.


 * (Also, can you guys stop adding the indent unless you're replying directly to something above? It screws up the page. I'm adding the indent b/c my rant is long and is directly related to everything above mine.) 01:32, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Is anyone else going to comment on this, or should I just archive and we move on? 01:24, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Join please?
May I join? 19:38, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

Sure~ 19:39, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! 20:30, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

Join plz
May I join? XD 18:36, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

Join?
May I join? Also, can someone approve my request to join SplashClan? TroubleStar51013 (talk) 22:01, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Sure~  00:43, August 12, 2013 (UTC)

Join =)
I was wondering if I could join? Thanks! Servalleap (talk) 20:29, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yes you may~ 20:35, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Duck - Join Request
Hi! Could I possibly join? =) 21:54, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

Yes you may~ 21:57, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

The two Queen Blanks and the two Leader Blanks
Okay, so there's two queen blanks. Why? Why do we need two? One is enough, cats might look different, but as far as I can see, there really isn't much difference in breed between the two blanks. And even if we needed different cat breeds, couldn't we just tweak them. But the two we have show pretty much the same cat in a different position.

So, my thoughts were, that we just keep one of them. I don't see the point in having two. Obviously it's different for the members and all that since they are actually different ranks. But in the Storm Fronts, there is 'queens', and in Clans, there are 'queens'.

Secondly, the two leader blanks. They're both the same rank, aren't they? The same applies with what I said about the Queen blanks. Anyways, if you can give me a reason why there are two of each, then please tell me. Politely. Thank you c:  Happiness  is a car from Sainsbury's 16:07, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

I'm no expert, but I think it is because, besides being the same rank, TSF isn't really a "clan" as such, but more of a group. The leader and queen blanks are intended for clans, and TSF have their own blanks. Maybe because the TSF leaders and queens have different "roles" to the clan cats... I don't really know. 16:09, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Yes but the two queen blanks are in a very similar position to one another, just shown at a different angle. I think having two is pointless.  Happiness  is a car from Sainsbury's 16:24, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

Loners and Rouges aren't a Clan, yet they use the Clan queen blanks. If we were to go by what Tiny said, then we'd technically need new queen blanks for loners and rogues, because they aren't a Clan. 19:52, 09/19/2013


 * Loners and rogues typically have their queens do the same as a Clan queen- raise their kits. A TSF queen often has more jobs- she's responsible for hunting for the kits, training them to their fullest extent, and still required to do most of her daily tasks, whereas a typical queen would rest, teach their kits a little, although not much, and have their mate or whomever they are remaining with provide food and bedding. They're both pregnant cats, but the queens of TSF serve different purposes and additional tasks to even rogues and loners. When I complete the story of Caprina, Maeva, and the like, this will be explained in further detail.


 * As for leaders, a TSF leader has a different role than a Clan leader, as well. The SF leader is royalty- he or she will ignore the "peasants", or standard members, and will be doted on. I plan on going into further detail about the position later on when I get around to completing the story of Loki and his ancestry. (Note: TSF leaders are known to drown all of the kittens in their litters save for one, the heir, so the kit will grow up with its mother's full attention. While Sebastian feels that is wrong and won't go through with it, and it is completely frowned upon in a Clan, typical leaders for the group will do that. Hence why Loki is an only kit, and with all of his fathers past that. Because of these morals, viewpoints, and royal status, they get a different blank, as they truly aren't the same rank.)


 * As for Ferk, considering you were the one who gave me the go-ahead with the separate blanks and listened to my arguments about this before, I'm surprised you don't recall any of this or why you said yes in the first place. Hope this all brings back those memories. 22:55, September 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, first off, that last sentence was really unnecessary and rude. Of course I remember. Why would I forget? And, second, I said yes because it's an entirely different system. I thought it was a great idea, and I still hold that opinion. I'm not sure what I was going for when I left my last comment up there ^, but, after reading the explanation you provided, I ask for my last comment to be disregarded. On a somewhat unrelated subject, Rain, do you think we'll ever see a female TSFs leader? (I've been meaning to ask that for a while now... Kept forgetting to ask though. :/) 20:13, 09/21/2013


 * The last sentences was a simple request- not meant to be taken as rude. From your comment above, it was a proper reaction, as you seemed to have forgotten our prior conversations. Now that we are disregarding it, then the whole last paragraph is unneeded of my former lecture. Considering the fact that Cas will be the first female leader of the group, I see no reason to make them right now. The position has been held by only males for all of the group's history, and Sebastian is breaking a few rules for his daughter. However, she will have to reign with a mate at all times due to this, but she will still be the dominant leader of the group. 22:13, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

Shading Placement Chart & Tutorials
So some quick thoughts, would we possibly update the shading chart? Maybe have it include both short and long-haired blanks on it? Since due to the extra fur, I guess it would affect the shadow it leaves. Although this is just me voicing my thoughts, could it possibly be arranged a little neater? Or something like that.

The tutorials, we could make a major page consisting of the user made tutorials. Like one tutorial from each artist could be placed and under theirs a link could be placed so people can check out the others that person has made?

These are just somethings I thought I'd bring up. 06:01 Sat Sep 14

I've been meaning to update the chart, although most people don't pay mind to the length of their character's fur when shading- our current longhaired blanks basically portray a cat right in-between being short-furred and medium-furred, and I don't want to adjust anything until we redo the lengths of fur. (Not sure if the argument is still up above or not, but check it out and leave your thoughts about it, as well. It seems to have died.)

That's a cool idea, and I like that one, for sure. Anyone else? 22:57, September 19, 2013 (UTC)

I also like that idea. c: 14:58, September 21, 2013 (UTC)

While We Tweak the Blanks..
It was brought up in chat to potentially redo a few blanks while we're at it. Everyone in there seemed to agree that the apprentices and rogues needed to be redone, and the queens needed to be tweaked for larger bellies. Since we are tweaking nearly every blank as soon as a vote passes, why not redo a few sets?

Any other thoughts? 00:56, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

I'm all for it. 01:03, 09/23/2013

I'm for it, too. While at the topic, would anyone mind if I redid the Leader blanks for the normal Clans? c: (might change the pose but if I do redo them I'll try to keep pose generally the same) 02:09, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind. 02:16, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

What's wrong with the leader blanks, again? And I'm agreeing with redoing the apprentices and rogues. 02:24, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

hi my i join
hey can i join O3O 14:00 Mon Sep 23

fine 02:22, September 24, 2013 (UTC)