User talk:Silverwhisker

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Shellshore's Daze

Irisfrost's Dream

pic
hey hey hey silv, i finished cardinalpaw's charart, so when i see you on chat again i'll show you so you can tell me if it matches her alright and what to fix. 19:38, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

idea
How do you feel about StormXSquirrel when Squirrel's older   ? 09:52, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

Pic again
k so since i can't seem to ever find you on when i'm on, here's the image:

http://www.ezimba.com/work/140310C/ezimba12197148327400.png

Tell me what you think when you get on. 17:09, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

thank you ouo. i'll put it now, i got the space. 17:13, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

Re:
Despite that, I think we can still manage. I mean, there aren't too many requests, and if there are, Stoem or I can just archive them in mass. However, I will consider you if we ever need more people to help us archive the adopted cat requests. I hope you understand ^^;;. 17:49, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

chaaaat! 00:21, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Re:Miner's group
Sure! Servalleap 21:40, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

thingy
Hey man! I was wondering; could Scareclaw do the do with Nightflower? Seeing as he is a player, I thought she would simply use this to have her own kits. — 08:09 Tue Mar 25

Re:
Oh, whoops! Sorry! I assumed since the wiki was so dead that we had decided just to claim stuff, since we don't need an adoption system with only, like, four active users. I kinda was wondering why we're giving all of these cats possessions? Like, I didn't know it was gonna be a thing. Reedstar was gonna be a real reincarnation, but you've been doing possessions, so now I'm not sure. 21:58, March 30, 2014 (UTC)

Well, to start, you know how much you can remember from when you were super little, and how the memories aren't always clear, but the fogginess of them don't bother you? You may not remember specific names or events or anything, or even nicknames you were called, but you still feel like they were a part of you? You can recall some major events, but not every feeling or emotion or person, even? Well, a true reincarnation would have everything from the past life be like that. Only a few major memories would occur, but the personality or even appearance may vary. You'd just be the same soul, just a different body. Some reincarnations wouldn't even allow the person to remember anything, nor would they ever even recall it. The cat would also never split from themselves- Phoenixstar wouldn't "take over" Cardinalpaw, or show herself in StarClan, because she is Cardinalpaw now. They're one being, and don't argue or take control. They can't split, or even remember most things, really. Maybe recall being leader, but that would be super fuzzy. Names, faces, etc, would all be a blur, but she wouldn't be bothered by it.

Cardinalpaw wouldn't seem to act strange, or even really know who she is, and nobody would think she looks like Phoenixstar, either. Phoienix was a standard ginger tabby, but a bit too cobby of a build to live in AutumnClan strongly. She relied on her mind alone to rise to power, really. However, Cardinalpaw could be built lighter, so she has a chance to be stronger. Phoenixstar's mind-strength wouldn't really affect her at all, and she'd be her own individual: she could become remembered for her hunting skills or fighting abilities. She could be short-furred and purple-furred, or a brown tabby, even.

A possession is what happened to Cinderheart and Cinderpelt in the Warriors books- the two spirits struggled for control, and could split up. Memories were given little by little over time, too, instead of just being there.

And, oh, I was sorta hoping that I could keep Sunstar, if possible... 00:02, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

By keeping Sun, I meant I wanted her reincarnation. You can keep her old StarClanny version, but I was hoping for her new life. 00:54, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Huh? 01:57, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Nope. A reincarnation would be her, and there's only one of her. b: 02:07, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Well, then yuo'd have three of the founding leaders. I mean, I can understand if you want Lilac and Sun for the story together, but to have Phoenix on top of it... 02:14, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Huh? A reincarnation /would/ be her. Reincarnation just means she's in a new body. It's all her still. Possession, then maybe, but then that's a little bit of overkill, seeing that she's being reborn over and over and over again. Plus, too many possessions could eventually corrupt her, as pure possession without consent which is what's going on with the babies. She'd become an evil spirit, essentially. 02:21, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

I don't want a possession, though. I want a reincarnation for my cat, and that's a little weird after a possession. ("Hey, I was just inside of you but now I'm here next to you! Let's partayy!") 02:26, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

Pop in chat. 02:31, March 31, 2014 (UTC)

got it. 01:51, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks
Bleh,thanks for the heads up about pictures being banned from siggies.Do you have any advice for this fine wiki? 16:31, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

''.Do I do anything with this or just leave it alone? 17:13, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! And yeah, grumpy elders are the best. Good luck figuring out that family tree, haha

psst, can you chat? c:  20:43, April 4, 2014 (UTC)

oh, nothing, just I was the only one in chat. :p Also, my chat works (I think?) but it won't let me put anything in. 20:45, April 4, 2014 (UTC)

Sparrow's Ceremony
Okay, so my Aspenkit is giving a life. Please put this when she gives the life:

A large black kitten trotted up to Tigerstorm. Balancing on her hind legs, the black kitten said, "I am Aspenkit, I died a few moons ago, in my sleep; with this life, I give you sincerity, so you do not lead our Clan with bad intentions. Live always by the warrrior code and you will be a worthy successor of a long line of leaders."

With that, Aspenkit trotted back into the crowd, taking her place amongst her Clanmates.

Thank you! Servalleap 19:28, April 7, 2014 (UTC)

Yay!.thanks a lot! C: 08:29, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

SPAMS YOU WITH HAPPY BIRTHDAY
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!! 22:17, April 10, 2014 (UTC)

oops I didn't know it was your birthday -facepalm- but anyway HAPPY BIRTHDAY HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOUUU 07:55, April 11, 2014 (UTC)

Happy late birthday!!! oh and come chat Servalleap  17:56, April 11, 2014 (UTC)

Still on
Yep, I'm still on rp. I'm just waiting for Senseikitten on SummerClan roleplay. I want her cats to go on a patrol. Anyway, I'm sorry if Frostfang is ruining your plans, he's just, well, in a "mid life crisis."Meerkatpaw (talk) 02:06, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Oh alright. I'll just rp in the SummerClan territory for a while. Then you can go to do the important things.Meerkatpaw (talk) 02:12, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

yo
Hey mate! So, I was thinking we could possibly link our stories? Like as in the allegiances part really, so it can match up a tad. Plus so the history isn't varied as much I assume as well. Up to you really, I kinda just spawned the idea to make things easier. (Also Crowstar's dep. name could be Crowpelt; seeing as he wasn't known for fighting skills or hunting). — 01:21 Sat Apr 19

that's fine. I can help if need be, that is to figure out cats for yours. I had Leggy help with Spider's story, so it matches up a little to Reedstar's. — 01:32 Sat Apr 19

*insert something witty here*
I'm going to miss you too, mate! Thank you for your kind wishes and all, and also the Spiderstorm thing. But I may ask, (mainly so my friend isn't confused), did you see my comment on the Shadow/Fang blog for kittens? I posted a comment, and I didn't know if you saw it or not. I'll miss you mate and I wish you good luck as well! — 22:25 Sun Apr 20

hello
Hi! I'm Mitchers, Alex's friend that she mentioned on her blog (or last note). She wanted to say thank you for how kind you've been, and for taking Magpiestar. But I wanted to inform you, he already had his ceremony and it is on the page. So yeah, mind you it was a pretty intense one at that. Anywho, I'd love to chat with you more in the future. Cheers! Mitchers (talk) 00:37, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I will do! Ahh ok, guess I had a little misunderstanding, seeing as I didn't know if you had seen it or not. I have a link to her current story on wattpad, just search up Durins_Diablo and she should come up on the search. The story is 'DANGER DAYS', definitely lookin' forward to when she posts some of it. Mitchers (talk) 00:43, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

sure~ 23:02, May 1, 2014 (UTC)

forgot
i forgot Brightcloud and her litter were iris's kits, so Stoneclaw and Thunderclaw are her grandsons ouo if you need help with the family, it's made up on their pages (it took so long, whyyy so much family. like, stone and thunder have crystalhearts and iris's, and those families are massive x.x) 15:56, May 3, 2014 (UTC)

Coarse ouo Sounds great! 19:50, May 3, 2014 (UTC)

Ysoltstar
Hey man, I'm using the background Paleh wrote up for Ysoltstar in the Clans' history, and the information will be inconsistent if Goldenstar is her father and if anything outside of what was originally written has been changed. I'd really appreciate it if you'd use what's been planned out and stuff so I don't have to re-write a giant chunk of pages just to fit a new plot twist. (That background also explained TWC powers and stuff and accommodates for any other magical cats on the website) Thanks, 04:00, May 8, 2014 (UTC)

So, whenda' want Iris and Wild to give birth? ouo Could be it sooner, because wild's been pregant for a bit of time so far, but it's up to you. 02:49, May 9, 2014 (UTC)

Silver, we've been working on this since before you came back. What you're requesting right now is like a fan coming up to an author of a book and asking them to re-write something just because they didn't like what a character said in one chapter or something like that. Typically having a founder still as leader is crazy, but the Wind Chasers have barely been around for very long, and your reasoning with age is a bit rediculous, seeing that these cats are virtually immortal.

We're only writing history so that any complications we've had with inconsistancy can be worked out, and with you re-writing such an important chunk, we're back to stage one for that particular group. We're trying to eliminate complications with errors, and not create even mroe that I'll be forced to work out with anything I've written. Most of the stuff that may not be very long or detailed on that history page are written up in full on my main PC, which I'm saving up to publish them all in one shot so I can finally fully lock the page and have everything set in stone. Will you please comply? 02:08, May 10, 2014 (UTC)

Re:
Hmm, whichever one has the earlier date is kept as Archive 6. The other gets renamed, along with every single other archive, to keep it in order. 16:39, May 11, 2014 (UTC)

No, I'd rather keep Ysolt's story entirely the same, namely because Ysolt is the founder of the Wind Chasers...therefore your leaders make no sense. She doesn't need a tragic backstory to blend in with most other leaders, and I see no fault with what Paleh originally compiled. Stoem and I had a brief discussion about this and she agreed with me- we're going to keep it this way.

And, what? Your sentence makes no sense. Autumn may have created them, but she never left any history. After you left, and I became admin, I decided to compile a history, and created a plot line with Stoem, the other admin, so that we have a backstory and that anything written in the roleplays could match up with the history. Namely to keep elders' stories consistent throughout the clans and archives. 02:37, May 13, 2014 (UTC)

Sure thing 07:17, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

Re:
Sure~ ouo. 23:55, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

question
is it alright if holly becomes pregnant with wolfy's kits? she may die from losing blood from giving birth, but idk. 20:41, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

alright ouo. 23:46, June 2, 2014 (UTC)

to answer questions
you added the |left]] option to the images, which screwed them up and made them weird, so when you add an image, removed the |left]] or |right]] to the image on source if you get what i mean. 01:21, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

wild
im having sild give birth soon, so unless you had it planned later is it alright? 18:43, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

alright, i'm posting it now. 18:46, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

cuuute <33 18:48, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

oh god i didnt even know i killed that many kittens, it just happens that i make them then dont want them after i make them. it's the process of a lazy person. but the title fits 18:55, June 6, 2014 (UTC)

Re:
Aaahhh I love it I love it~ Pelli c: sure I will, what do you need? And the Saorise is great - it's unique! 15:30, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Aww it's so cute! :o 16:32, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

Re:
Sure. 22:15, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

RE:
Sure, thanks ouo 21:12, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

EDIT: oh wait I'm just gonna change her to a calico w/ blue eyes calicos are cute So I'm sorry Dx But thank you for offering :D 21:19, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Re:
I don't think theres a real point of it, as the ceremonies were usually always done in the discontinued half-moon gatherings before. They weren't ever done individually like leadership ceremonies, but go ahead if you want.

00:16, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Re:
Yeah sure mate! — 20:48 Wed Jul 2

Jamie and Harmony
So, Pelli and Jaws kittens? :p 16:26, July 9, 2014 (UTC)

Clans
WinterClan and SummerClan do not border. We changed the territory map a bit since wc vs. sc but now it doesn't border, Sc does border splc, tsf, a city, some unclaimed land, ac, and sprc. (also, splashclan isn't new, it was founded along with the other clans. Read this for info on the clans a bit.) 16:20, July 13, 2014 (UTC)

ah yeah sorry about that. 16:49, July 14, 2014 (UTC)

Hey~
I remember u, though it's been awhile and sometimes my memory sucks so I might mix up my memories of u with other users. And u may guess who I am on my talk page. Maybe u might be right. :D If u aren't, no hard feelings, it's been two years anyways. Lol, hope u guess can my identity. And is Rowan and Leafy still here? I see Rainy (Rainfacestar) is still active. Also, I just posted my first post of my new kitty, Rushwhisper, and I'm not sure how to advance, like who should I approach to ask to join the clan. And holy crap, the SummerClan has 46 archives?!! I'm a lazy ass so instead of reading everything to know what's going on (back then I would have done that) I'm just gonna cannonball into the world of warrior cats again and go with the flow. (〜￣▽￣)〜 Ok, wow, I hope u don't mind I wrote this big ass paragraph. Ha, one of my memories of roleplaying on here was that I'd usually make looooong posts. Anyways, that's all for now. Byee~ The Inspiration (talk) 09:07, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry but this isn't Firestream12. Nah, just kidding, I'm just screwing with ya! ヽ(*≧ω≦)ﾉ It is I, Fireh, I have returned from the ashes and have rekindled the fire of my roleplaying. Hopefully our old friends will return like I did and it could be like when we first started this wiki. Omg, I love how this place has flourished! It's more active and seems so professional, and wow I miss it. Eh I'm drowning in nostalgia recalling the things I can remember from here. And dang SummerClan has a whole new generation of cats. When I looked at the names, I was like, "Who are you people?! *insert that Patrick picture if u know what I'm talking about*" and gosh I'm kinda nervous about roleplaying since it's been so long and I'm still developing my kitty. Well, anyways, it's nice to be back and hope to roleplay with ya too! The Inspiration (talk) 22:28, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

Re:Apple
Nah, she looks great! Just notice what you said in her appearance section and abilities doesn't quite add up- if she's slim, then she isn't intimidating, no matter her height. A slender cat may be good at hunting, and a tall cat will be great at running, but intimidation doesn't continue on the battle field, where thicker cats have an advantage. She and Guppy should be a lot closer, imo, so we should totally roleplay more. 05:45, July 18, 2014 (UTC)

Like, the free space to the left of WinterClan. Not touching the border, and a ways away, but maybe the outermost corner of the map would've been part of their border. Pretty far away, considering a cat is the size of a quarter of a pixel. 02:44, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

Also for AC a great dane would literally kill a cat and it's not gonna give up any time soon. Any dog will likely kill the cats, or find other cat scents and go kill all of the camp. Might not be the best choice for action since cats very likely can't kill something like that or frighten it enough. 02:52, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

The main series is so unrealistic when portraying them, so no. Like a chihuahua would be enough to actually scare away, but why any dog would be in AC is amazing since it's literally so deep in untamed forest. Idk what you're going for. 03:01, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

Nah, foxes can't be attacked by cats or scared by cats. Cats are bite-sized snacks. Think a hungry cat being scared by a sparrow. Not likely to happen. Cardinal could be scared by the border by a passing rogue or something? It probably wouldn't chase her off, but a small fight could happen and the rogue win and tell her to scram and that could tree her? Idk. 03:12, July 20, 2014 (UTC)

ayy
Hey, I was just wondering, could I possibly have a kit in the PouringxBurning litter? If not, no worries. ouo — 04:07 Sun Jul 20

Nah man, she'll be right. Thanks for replying! ouo — 04:15 Sun Jul 20

Yo
Hey. If you're on, meet me in chat if you get a chance? I wanna chat with ya, it's been a while. 23:43, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Hey hey heeeeey~
Silver! Y u no reply to my message? Lol. Yes, it is I, Fire, Firestream, Firey, Fireh! I came back on a whim cause I was bored and wondering, "Hmm? Wonder if this wiki is still alive?" And it was! Did my previous message throw you off because of that, "this is not firestream12" sentence and you just decided not to read the rest, hmm? Or maybe ya forgot to message me? (^▽^) If ya did, I don't mind, you were probably busy and I would have just bug ya till ya messaged me. (￣▽￣) The Inspiration (talk) 23:15, July 24, 2014 (UTC)

so get this
I was thinking of bringing back Talonclaw, but I'll get an opinion from you on that cause yeah. In case you were wondering on how I'm getting him back, well Spiderstorm (the dead one) has her ways. — 23:11 Sat Jul 26

I think so, it'd be rather interesting to see him react to his supposedly dead father return. — 23:15 Sat Jul 26

Alright dude! I'll do it later then ouo — 23:19 Sat Jul 26

Thanks
Thanks for telling me all that stuff. And I'll take the pictures out of my signature right away.

🎈 Let's go to Saturn! 🎈  20:21, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

MY CHAT DIED!!! 21:14, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Kap 8DDDDD 21:17, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

Chat's working. AND OMFG SORRY I DIDNT KNOW I CAN CHANGE IT IF YOU WANT 21:20, July 31, 2014 (UTC)

I'm on chat >:D 16:19, August 1, 2014 (UTC)

Hola Whiskey
Chat is being a bum so I thought I would just say heyyyyy  Rainy is da...    BANANA QUEEN!   03:21, August 3, 2014 (UTC)

So... watcha doin'? I'm plotting the changes in Rainface's Story, probably gonna rename it to something cooler, though... Like... Like... Rainface's Pain, cuz it does base around her story which is kinda sad. Rainy is da...   BANANA QUEEN!   03:23, August 3, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I want to write and stuffies but idk...  Rainy is da...    BANANA QUEEN!   03:33, August 3, 2014 (UTC)

To answer your question, I probably don't have the patience to do all of them, but I'm more than happy to take care of the warrior, at least! 21:35, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

you still on? 21:05, August 7, 2014 (UTC)

Could you kill one of Sparrow's lives for me, please? I was going to do it when I got back but I'm awful at deaths. Thanks! 21:14, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

Gracias! 22:44, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

Re:
1. Perfect name<3 I love the Cloud concept. Maybe it could be like Two Clouds in the Sky? or something lol. I like your name two.

2. Sure! I love the black smoke tabby idea as well. 21:19, August 11, 2014 (UTC)

Ohhhh.... oh well :3 I'll fix dat up then, lol XD idk why, I just always read it as Brilliantflame being a medicine cat... I'll get to that! Rainy is da...   BANANA QUEEN!   18:32, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Reedstar's already been reincarnated! So she can't lead them. Plus, I prefer to keep dead cats out of the land of the living unless they're like Callie. Good suggestion though! But Guppy knows where it is, since she was born there ^-^ 21:38, August 13, 2014 (UTC)

Re:
I'd prefer if the newer blanks aren't used, but feel free to use the old warriors and whatnot. 16:17, August 14, 2014 (UTC)

Dude it's totally fine and yeah that works 16:36, August 14, 2014 (UTC)

'ello
Hey, would you mind if I pushed Crowkit's, Minkkit's, Risekit's, Gannetkit's, Darkkit's, and Rainkit's back a bit for a month or so? 18:01 Fri Aug 15

M'kay, I'm just waiting until Diablo and Beebs respond back then I'll put it back. 20:16 Fri Aug 15 20:16, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

Blueflame
what would you say to Blue asking Cardinal to be his mate? 21:14, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

We'll talk about it when we're both on and have time :D that sounds great 22:00, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I've got more stable connection where we're staying, I'm going back there soon 22:14, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

Aww that's so sad, but it sounds good. Okay! 22:49, August 15, 2014 (UTC)

RE:
Ok, thanks for telling me. I just changed the ceremony list to make Littlekit a normal apprentice.

Ola~
I return! Woot! Spain was great; thank you for taking care of Sparrowstar for me! 21:51, August 21, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, buddy - it was nice of you to take care of that for me, ceremonies are a bit of a pain, to me c: 02:19, August 22, 2014 (UTC)

Re:
Erm sorry about that, I'll go archive them now. School's started so I've been off and on lately :C. 22:39 Thu Aug 21 22:39, August 21, 2014 (UTC)

No no no no its fine, It's not yer fault. I'll get right on it now that I'm done. 23:18 Thu Aug 21 23:18, August 21, 2014 (UTC)

Theres a bit of a problem with Willowstar, Diablo. owns her, you'll have to take it up with her. 23:32 Thu Aug 21 23:32, August 21, 2014 (UTC)

Hm, maybe she asked me or Beebs before to adopt her and we forgot to remove the request? I am fairly sure that might've been the case. In any situation, you have to take it up with her on this. <span style="">00:08 Fri Aug 22

== yo ==

email me when ur on pls 18:13, August 22, 2014 (UTC)

Hey, It's Cassie. Can chu get on the chat? 18:19, August 26, 2014 (UTC)

re:
Well, I'll let you on how I'm bringing him back. This won't be in the roleplay, but he will talk with Spiderstorm about it. She, having just killed her adoptive mother (again) will be easier to talk to, so she complies. But they find a little problem, due to her distinct killing style, they are unable to use his body. So they use a young warrior named Tigerclaw, who Spiderstorm picks on both looks and skill selection. So essentially he'll return in a new body, but it will be him as Spiderstorm switches them out essentially. But poor Talonclaw will owe her back and she can do so whenever. — ᴡɪɴᴛᴇʀ sᴏʟᴅɪᴇʀ   ★    ᴡʜᴏ ᴛʜᴇ ʜᴇʟʟ ɪs ʙᴜᴄᴋʏ?  <span style="">Tue Aug 26 21:22

She won't go to the extent of making him a different cat altogether. Spiderstorm can tell who he's doing this whole deal for, and she accepts that, so the pairing will hopefully still be the same. All she will do is make him watch over Irisfrost and their son because even this evil molly has a very strong soft spot for kits. — ᴡɪɴᴛᴇʀ sᴏʟᴅɪᴇʀ   ★    ᴡʜᴏ ᴛʜᴇ ʜᴇʟʟ ɪs ʙᴜᴄᴋʏ?  <span style="">Tue Aug 26 21:33

RE: Scarlet
Hey Queen of Lameness, Scsrlet can be called the healer. I have to add to the allegiances, so give me a day or two to edit it. Servalleap 01:55, August 30, 2014 (UTC)

holla
hey man do you think that Scarceclaw could get with Spiderstorm? — <span style="">Wed Sep 3 07:23

just as a fling, cos she's pretty dedicated to Loach but wants to have her own kits. — <span style="">Thu Sep 4 05:29

hey
Hey there mate! I was wondering, cause I was reading up on Saoirse, and the group sounded real interesting. Could Mitchell and Anders join? I'm assuming Anders would be a warrior, while Mitchell would be a queen cause she's expecting a litter. <span style="">09:38 Fri Sep 12

wait never mind! so sorry, but I had another idea. <span style="">06:34 Mon Sep 15